Island Man

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Posts by Island Man

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  29

  Getting married when you are spiritually out

  by 1tMakesNoSence in

  1. social
  2. relationships

  i met this amazing girl about 6years ago at my local congregation.

  i was 100% in back then.

  about 3years ago i woke up spiritually and kept it undercover till a few months ago.. this girl is still very in (but she doesnt really do the things a reaaal jw should do.

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  Island Man

  As long as she is still mentally in there is always the risk that she will one day become zealous and think she is helping you by outing you to the elders.
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  4

  A possible new and disturbing dynamic of control in JW families.

  by Island Man in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  we all know that young children are very impressionable and love cartoons.

  lately, watchtower seems to be using caleb and sophia to indoctrinate young children into becoming zealous jw cultists.. what if this largely succeeds - at least while the children are still young?

  what effect could/would this have on family dynamics, specifically, the the parent-child relationship?.

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  Island Man

  We all know that young children are very impressionable and love cartoons. Lately, Watchtower seems to be using Caleb and Sophia to indoctrinate young children into becoming zealous JW cultists.

  What if this largely succeeds - at least while the children are still young? What effect could/would this have on family dynamics, specifically, the the parent-child relationship?

  Think of a child who has seen and internalized the infamous ice-cream video. What would she think about her parent and say to her parent who she sees buying an unnecessary item, say a new pair of shades, a watch, a bracelet, etc?

  "Mommy, that money should go to support the world-wide work! Isn't that more important?"

  Imagine JW households with parents who are put in the position of being psychologically pressured by their Watchtower indoctrinated children to be good JWs! Caleb and Sophia will make parenting more difficult for more moderate JW parents. Parents will feel pressured to live as good, model JWs at home to meet the expectations created in the minds of their children who watch Caleb and Sophia.
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  88

  Damned if they do, Damned if they don't

  by FusionTheism in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i see an attitude among some people here which is not very helpful.

  i can understand it, but still, it's not constructive or helpful.. if you condemn the society for not changing, but then you also condemn them when they do change in a positive way, what incentive or motive does that provide for the people at the society to ever want to change for the better?.

  also, what does that attitude look like to current witnesses who are having doubts?.

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  Island Man

  "If you condemn the Society for NOT changing, but then you also condemn them when they DO change in a positive way, what incentive or motive does that provide for the people at the Society to ever want to change for the better?"

  1 The Society's biggest problem is its lack of genuine humility - the very arrogant, grandiose claims it makes about itself without tangible supporting evidence and despite a litany of evidence to the contrary. Those who lift themselves on a pedestal, making extraordinary claims about themselves are inviting scrutiny and should be man enough to accept it instead of seeking to demonize and censor those who give it through the use of manipulative propaganda and shunning. To whom much is given much is expected in return. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence and invite extraordinary scrutiny.

  2 If The Society would just humbly come clean and apologize honestly and directly for all its wrongs and cease its attitude of arrogance and manipulation based on its bogus claims of divine authority - self-appointed authority - and allow JWs the freedom of conscience to hold different opinions from the Society on matters not clearly stated in scripture, then people would tend to be more forgiving of the society. The great scrutiny will also die down since they'll no longer be making arrogant unsubstantiated claims of special divine appointment.

  3 it is an ongoing insult and torment to ex-JWs to see The Society changing past teachings over which some were disfellowshipped for disagreeing with, and no apology is given to them and their status as disfellowshipped is not reversed. It is an insult to see an organization behaving as if it is infallible and practically demanding that it be treated as infallible while teaching utter nonsense and demonizing those who disagree.

  4 The changes that Watchtower makes are often not born out of genuine love for truth but out of mere organizational expediency. Many JWs have written to the Society logically and scripturally demonstrating the falsehood of their teachings and yet they continue for years and decades with the false teachings - because the truth would not serve their interests at that time. Do you think Watchower is unaware that 607 BCE is false? They know it's false! Carl Johnson wrote a book logically showing its false and sent them a copy. They are aware that its false but its not in their organizational interest to change it. Only when a teaching reaches the point of being untenable does the society actually move to change it. They are not lovers of truth. They are lovers of the organization and the power it gives them.

  5 So we criticize them when they don't change because the lack of change is due to their loyalty to the interest of the organization rather than their loyalty to the truth. And we criticize them when they do change because the changes are also prompted by loyalty the interest of the organization rather than loyalty to the truth. Also the changes prove that they don't deserve the treatment as a special, unchallengable, spirit directed authority on truth that they seek to manipulate JWs into giving them.
  
  

  "Also, what does that attitude look like to current Witnesses who are having doubts?
  It probably looks to them like the Society has been correct in the way they describe apostates as bitter complainers who are never happy with anything the Society does."

  6 Yes, many apostates are bitter complainers - justifiably so! The society is essentially taking a symptom of discovering that you've been deceived and manipulated (becoming bitter) and attaching to it the connotation of being irrelevant/dishonest then using this connotation to groom JWs into dismissing apostates without examining the substantive point they're making. Watchtower is using the propaganda technique of name calling and the logical fallacy of ad hominem. It is analogous to a pedophile grooming his would-be victim by telling him/her that society is cruel and does not understand him (the pedophile) and hates him and wants to see him locked up just because he likes little children and wants to give them love; and for this reason he tells his would-be victim not to tell other adults about their conversations and conduct in private.

  For example:
  * "The Society finds crazy Types and Antitypes in everything, where it doesn't exist. Way too many deep layers of nonsense being taught."
  * (After the New Light): "The Society is way too simplistic and dumbed down. What happened to the deep study?"

  7 Nonsense! Yes the types and antitypes are indeed nonsensical and have been criticized as such by ex-JWs. But the comments about the society being dumbed down has nothing to do with that. The criticism of the new light abandonment of types and anti-types has nothing to do with simplicity and everything to do with hypocrisy. They claim to be abandoning the type anti-type approach while continuing in it for their 1914 teaching.

  And when they recently have admitted to errors and say they've been wrong in big ways in the past, some accuse them of having some secret conspiracy theory motive behind it.

  8 What conspiracy theory motive? What are you talking about? And they have never unreservedly apologized for the ills caused by their past errors. As for admitting their past errors: haven't you noticed how when they speak of them they avoid using direct words like "false", "error", "wrong", etc in preference for far more diplomatic and euphemistic words and language? It's a hallmark of their lack of true humility. Even when purporting to admit they were wrong they are unwilling to actually say that they were wrong!

  To the people with this attitude: What exactly is it that you WANT the Society to do?

  See 2 above.
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  7

  The Other Sheep and the Little Flock -- Simplified Suggestion

  by FusionTheism in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  if you look at the context of the scriptures, you'll see that the "little flock" jesus was going to give the kingdom to (luke 12:32) are the leaders in the congregations, the ones who faithfully serve his sheep, beginning with the apostles and original jewish believers.. in addition, the "other sheep" who would be brought into the congregation later, given the context in the gospel of john, would be the gentile (non-jewish) christians.

  (see john 12:20-32).

  nothing in these scriptures says anything about an earthly hope for the other sheep and a heavenly hope for the little flock.. that is going beyond what is written..

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  Island Man

  I agree with you on the identity of the "other sheep" being gentile christians.

  However, I think that when Jesus used the expression "little flock" he was referring specifically to his then present 12 (or 11) apostles. 12 people out of a nation of millions truly is a little flock. Although large crowds followed Jesus and he at one time had upwards of 70 disciples, it was the very little flock of 12 that faithfully stuck with him up until his arrest. The apostles are given the most prominent inheritance in the kingdom. (Matthew 19:28; Revelation 21:14) After Jesus, the highest authority in the kingdom will be the apostles. In this sense they are given the kingdom.

  I don't think "little flock" refers to all the leaders in the congregations down to our time because the context shows that Jesus was clearly speaking to those present with him at the time. He was calling them the "little flock". Thus little flock simply refers to his close disciples/apostles highlighting the fact that they were a small group. In contrast, Jesus clearly indicated that the "other sheep" was a future group which wasn't present when he spoke about them. He used the future tense and indicated they were not then present ("not of this fold")

  Often, the simplest explanation that fits the context is the correct one and there is no need to be reading too much into what Jesus says unless the context indicates that he was speaking in parables.
  
  
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  55

  JWs and their views on Sex

  by campaign of hate in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  in the past i have read on this forum that the wt have a say in the "bedroom" of couples.

  i thought that was a bit overkill at first, but recently i have come to conclusion that this is true.. the control administered by the wt cooperation on ones sex life is not on only intrusive, its damaging.

  they control every aspect of ones thought and action, thus leading most down a path that said corporation wants them to tread.. this path is to get married young, and then eternal loyalty the the organisation.. so how can an organisation force you to get married young?.

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  Island Man

  steve2: As a Witness, I began dating a very marriageable man . . .
  My sensitively-inclined boyfriend . . . I was stunned, as was my husband. . .

  steve2, you're a woman?! And all this time I was thinking you're a man! lol
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  64

  What triggered your doubts / awakening?

  by Tornintwo in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  i am sort of new here, used a different username for a while but things got 'difficult' at home so i've since been lurking.... what i would be really interested to know, if you don't mind sharing, is what it was that triggered your doubts and initial research which led to awakening, was it a bad experience, injustice, changed doctrine?

  for me, it was seeing mistreatment of young ones in the congregation, they're under so much pressure and as soon as they go even slightly astray they are shunned, either informally (as bad associations which pushes them further into the 'world') or formally - with elders dying to throw the book at them so they even lose their family.... ...then reading about child abuse issues in the press.... ...which led me to silentlambs.

  ...then jw facts, this forum and coc, wham!

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  Island Man

  The deceitful use of misquotes and fallacious logic in the Evolution book.
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  21

  RC 2015 Book "Jesus—The Way, the Truth, the Life"

  by wifibandit in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  http://www.jw.org/en/publications/books/jesus/.

  .

  non jw download - all formats & audio.

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  Island Man

  It looks like just a copy and paste of the Greatest Man book with some adjustments.

  It seems like "Faithful and Discreet Slave" is no longer in the business of cooking fresh food. More often than not they just pull some leftovers out of the refridgerator and warm it up in the microwave and add some fresh garnishing to make it look new.

  Seems like Watchtower no longer has a writing dept. but an editing (copying and pasting and adjusting) dept.
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  35

  A Burger and a Hook-up

  by John Aquila in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  so i went to get a burger just now, and a couple of elders from my former congregation caught me off guard.

  they started giving me the we feel so sorry for you, you must be so lonely bit.

  i kept telling them im doing great and im not lonely but its like they couldnt hear me talking.

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  Island Man

  Sure, I could marry a hot 20 year old, but then I'd have to deprogram her then she'd be all like "I only married you because you were decent looking and weren't gross". And she'd be like "Thanks for helping me out, btw I'm gay lets get divorced". So yeah that's not happening

  ROFLOL
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  37

  The flat earth conspiracy!

  by Truthexplorer in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  ok. let me first start by saying i am not a flat earther.

  i like most on here will have the same view most will have here about our planet.

  in saying that however, i am incredibly gob smacked by the book written by eric dubay called 'the flat earth conspiracy'.

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  Island Man

  Well the earth is flat at the "metroscopic" scale - by that I mean the sensory perception of the unaided human standing on the surface of the earth. It is only round at the macroscopic scale.
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  5

  guy says he's not guilty of murder because victim refused blood transfusion that could've saved him

  by Question_Mans_interpretation in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i wonder if the guy will get off the hook for murder since the jw died during surgery that he refused blood for.

  http://www.fresnobee.com/2015/05/15/4526968/did-fresno-shooting-victims-religious.html.

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  Island Man

  I agree with OnTheWayOut. The only difference that should exist between a charge of attempted murder and murder is the name. Both crimes should have equal sentencing. The only time there should be a difference is when the perpetrator has a last minute change of heart while committing the crime and he takes actions to save his victim's life.